SERIALIZATIONSERIALIZATION, cont. AGUIRRE Y ARANZABAL. (AYA) SERIALIZATION. 1945 to 1994. From 1945 to 1994 AYA had manufactured over. 600,000 shotguns of all models and grades with all serial numbers assigned in chronological order. 1927-1944 year of manufacture date codes,.
Looking to buy my first WWII 1911 and need some help to find out what I am looking at.The pistol is in great shape but I am not sure if is original, arsenal rebuild or a put together. The park has even wear and is in great shape with very visible flame hardening of the front on the slide.
I did not notice any rebuild marks. The trigger looks like it could be du-lite finish? The grips have some dings the hammer looks to have some of the serated portion worn or did not get stamped properly. Even the serial number looks freshly struck.I believe the barrel is a High Standard.The pistol looks great but would like some other opinions before I spend a lot of money. What condition would you rate it at if it is original? What value?me know what I am looking at or any additional thing to look for.
I have an Ithaca and I found the ID pages at coolgunsite.com to be extremely helfpul. Unfortunately the site is offline right now, but you can use the webarchive to pull it up.go to the date slider at the top of the screen back until you can get a page with the 'ID Pages' tab to load. I found it just randomly pulling up Fed 5 2005.Once you are in the ID Pages you will find pages for all the major parts. He does an excellent job showing what each manufacturer used with detailed photos. You should have no job comparing the parts on the pistol you are looking at purchasing to these pages.
There is also a very helpful tab called 'Ithaca' that shows the dates for each serial number range along with info on where each shipment went upon order.Good luck with the purchase. I only have the one Ithaca 1911a1 but, if my pockets were deeper, I think I would get sucked into collecting these awesome pistols.eta: just looked for your serial number and it looks like it is 1943. Unfortunately, as he states on the site, Ithaca was all over the place with their serial numbers so he doesn't show where pistols were shipped prior to 1944. By the way, that pistol looks like it is in excellent condition. Report back if you end up buying it. 1944 Ithaca shipped March-April 1944. (Pistols were not shipped in numbered lots consecutively) part of Ithacas second contract.
The pistol looks to be correct from what I can see.has a later ribbed mainspring housing, serrated safety, hammer is probably correct. HS barrel is correct. Common to see the machining marks under the finish on Ithacas. Feed ramp should be bare metal, not parkerized and not polished. The grips are a little beat up for a pistol with a such a good finish, so they likely aren't original. They do appear to be proper Keyes though.
It all depends on the asking price. It looks OK to me. After approximately serial number 1208674 Ithaca started stamping the serial number after the pistol was Parkerized, giving the serial number a different appearance compared to the other markings, as seen on the pistol you are considering. My Ithaca is like that too:it was refinished the serial number would probably look the same as the other markings.Not talking about Outdoorsman0 but as a general observation, there seem to be many people who have become used to getting free information on the Internet, and that's as much as they are willing to spend (nothing) for information. But sometimes you get what you pay for. The Internet isn't a substitute for good reference material including books that you actually have to buy, for example among others.As for the Internet, the free coolgunsite.com site is a good introduction but if you are serious about buying a M1911 or M1911A1 pistol, in my opinion it is a worthwhile investment to subscribe to Scott Gahimer's site.
The $30 annual subscription is a small cost when you are talking about pistols that cost 2-3 thousand dollars (for a good one). I assume the subscription fee helps pay for the data costs associated with such an image-heavy web site. Subscribers have access to a gallery of excellent photos of hundreds of M1911 and M1911A1 pistols, including for example forty-nine (49) original Ithaca M1911A1's. There are 40+ clear pictures of each pistol, including close-ups of the markings. You can study photos of original pistols and compare them to a pistol you are considering buying. $30 is nothing if it keeps you from making a $2000 mistake.
I just went through a similar exercise (thanks thebearpack!). I'm definitely not an expert, but a few things: the 'P' on the slide should match the one on the frame (looks like yours does), most of the stamps were applied after Parkerizing, so you might see burnishing inside the stamps and serial number, especially in the crossed cannons. Last thing is, the wear should match, like between the slide and frame, etc.I definitely agree with Milsurp Collector about getting a copy of Meadows's book (US Military Automatic Pistols 1920-1945). At $38 on Amazon it's a steal. The three volumes were $75 each and they are eventually going to go through the roof like Clawson's did. Milsurp Collector I agree completely with you about reference material. I have a small library of Garand,1903 and carbine books but not one on 1911's.
Even with all of the Garand books there are is a lot of information that was not know at the time they were printed or not room to put all of the information in the book.The 'free information' I have found to be very helpful when backed up with my own careful observations.I would also like to thank all of the collectors that spend the time and money examining correct rifles and pistols and then pass along the small details that make collecting fun. I just went through a similar exercise (thanks thebearpack!).My pleasure! We all have to take our lumps when learning but in the 1911 game mistakes can be very expensive (ask me how I know!) so I like to help when possible.Outdoorsman, this one looks okay to me at first glance but there are a couple things I can't see well enough and the obvious replaced grips are slightly concerning (though there are lots of reasons why they could have been swapped). Are you able to see this gun in person? If so, I can give you a few tips on things to look at. If not, maybe the owner can supply a few more pics?
Feel free to PM me for more info.
Ithaca 1911a1 Serial Number Lookup
Ithaca M1911a1 Value
First I would like to thank everyone for their input and help in my search to identify the various components. Based on what I have found there is some very interesting history even though this is an arsenal rebuild.The only thing that Istill can not seem to find is any information regarding RIA rebuilds with no inspector stamps such as FK which this has no indication of. Could a firearm go through RIA and not get an inspectors stamp?
What time period would this have occurred?Any additional information or knowledgeis certianly appreciatedFound this 1911a1 at a recent estate sale in the original arsenal shipping box.The condition on the pistol was in such excellent condition that I could not resist to purchase. Would anyone be able to share any additional information as to it potential value? Or if it has any collector value?This is what I have found so far:Est a 43 colt slide and sights, colt barrel marked COLT.45 auto on barrel at 7 o'clock position, with G stamped on bottom of barrel forward of barrel lugs.Lower Frame seems to be a 43 ITHACA with Ithaca and RIA markings, all other parts seem to be era period Ithaca Parts with the exception of the grips which I believe are coltwood. The one oddity that I noticed was that the mag well cut out under the grips has the typical Colt heart profiles and H stamp near sear pin. I found something that said that Ithaca and Colt duplicated serial numbers in this range.
Ithaca 1911a1 Markings
Is it possible that this is actually Colt Receiver supplied to Ithaca?I am looking for additional assistance to identify the mfgs. Of the slide stop, thumb safety and main spring housing mfg. My initial thoughts are that the slide stop and thumb safety is US&S based on part profile and checker, the main spring housing looks to be either US&S or Ithaca. If anyone can help better identify these items it would be greatly appreciated.It is kinda of interesting that it was married to a Colt Slide at the Arsenal. Pics are attached below.IMG /IMGIMG /IMGIMG/IMGIMG/IMGIMG/IMGIMG/IMG.
Your picture isn't showing up but it sounds like you have a nice Rock Island Arsenal rebuild. You are correct about Colt supplying frames to Ithaca. In their original configuration, these Ithacas built on surplus WWI Colt frames command a premium. I'm not sure it would add much value to a rebuild but it's still interesting.
Collectors do like these rebuilds especially when they're arsenal marked.As far as value, no way to tell for sure without seeing pics. It could be worth $1200-$1500 and maybe a little more if the box is from the DCM with the original label.